Saturday 5 May 2012

Tsietsi Mashinini's interview in 1977

by Malaika Wa Azania on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 at 3:24pm ·
[ This interview was conducted on January 9 1977 in New York City.Tsietsi Mashini was in exile.He was one of the leaders of the June 16 1976 uprisings that led to the genocide of Black students by apartheid police.Below are some excerpts that i want to share with you.]

...REPORTS SAID THAT ABOUT 200/300 BLACK PEOPLE WERE KILLED.IS THAT AN ACCURATE FIGURE SINCE THE 16TH OF JUNE?
TM:On a national scale or in Soweto only?

ON A NATIONAL SCALE.
TM:I would put it at a thousand people who have died from June right up to this day.Their figure is not very accurate...When the policemen say they opened fire,they mean just that.They shoot and they shoot to kill.If you got a bullet wound,you are lucky.
Immediately after June 16,they put a ban on every gathering,and according to this ban under the Riotous Assemblies Act,it means 3 people constitute an illegal gathering.These police just needed an excuse to see 3 people together,and they would open fire on those 3 people.

WHAT KINDS OF WEAPONS DID THE POLICE USE?
TM:Rifles,sten guns,rapid fire revolvers,batons.Some on the people died from tear gas...During June 16th and the days that followed,they were using small canisters but later on they were using big canisters,and they used to shoot them from big guns.If it fell near you,like maybe you were running away, and you fell,people trampled on you and that teargas exploded near you,it could literally kill you with the fumes.

THE REPORTS THAT WE RECEIVED WERE THAT MAYBE 200 WERE KILLED IN SOWETO.
TM:More than 600.After the 16th,17th,18th,we went to the local government mortuary where families were going to identify their bodies...I got in there,there were shelves,people packed in shelves,small kids,adults,fathers,old men,old women,packed all over the shelves,even lying on the floor,just a big heap on the floor.And they had holes in them,some of them were riddled with bulets beyond recognition...They had put numbers on their foreheads.The biggest figure i saw was 353,and i had not seen all the numbers on all foreheads.That was one local mortuary...Other people,especially little kids and old people,no one could account exactly where they have gone to.

INSPITE OF ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED,STUDENTS STEPPED UP THEIR ACTIVITIES.WHERE DID THIS ENERGY COME FROM?
TM:Bitterness.We have seen too much of it.We have gone through too much of it.Everybody knew that it's now or never.We want political rights.We want economic rights.We want our land back.
People would ask me: "When are we going to the streets again?"
I couldn't understand that.What they were literally implying is "When are we going on the streets to be shot and to die again?" They knew that.They expected that,but they were prepared to go on the streets.

WHAT ABOUT THE ELDERLY? WE HEARD THAT THERE WERE SOME WHO WOULDN'T GO ALONG WITH WHAT THE STUDENTS WERE SAYING.
TM:95% of the people were there with us.It is their children who died on the streets,who are in detention,who are being tortured,who are in exile.They are affected eitherway.

WE WERE GETTING REPORTS THAT IT WAS NOT BITTERNESS THAT CAUSED WHAT HAPPENED,BUT COMMUNISTS.RUSSIA WAS BEHIND IT.
TM:I don't know what is communism.I only know that SA is scared of communism and regards it as the enemy.The mere fact that communism is the enemy of SA,the people back home tended to identify with whatever is an enemy of the racist regime.I never knew what was happening in Angola but the mere fact that SA was fighting with MPLA,i pledged solidarity with MPLA and said "fight on,black brothers".I identified any enemy of the racist regime as my friend.

WHAT KIND OF HISTORY DID YOU LEARN?
TM:It's White,it can never be truth.It's written by the white people for the white community,not by Black people for us...That's one reason i quit doing history.It had nothing to do with me.It wasn't my history.

DO YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE?
TM:I hate white people.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL WHITES IN SA MUST BE KILLED? IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THEY CAN LIVE IN HARMONY WITH BLACK PEOPLE?
TM:Everybody feels like taking a gun and wiping the whole White population off the earth in SA...I believe room can be made for them.But after the armed struggle there are going to be many things that are going to happen and i don't see how they are going to fit in our community.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN?
I would like to see America getting out of our country.It is doing nothing in the interests of Black people.American firms comply with the racist policies...We are aware that if corporations pull out,a lot of people will be unemployed and starve.But we also know that there is no struggle without casualties.We are not going to get everything put on a plate for us and be told "There is SA back to you".We must suffer,we must die,we must kill and we'll get our South Africa back to us

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